Rant and Poem about Crap Poetry - Just How Short Can It Be?
81Note: I am not a poet but I have a view. I am particularly interested in hearing the views of real poets on this...
Here's a rant about very short so called poetry written by very short so called poets.
I don't know if they are short or not.
But their poems certainly are.
My critical opinion of these extremely short pieces is not that they use the economy of words in a stunning example of meaningful writing - but that they are in fact just crap.
Now, OK. I'm setting myself up for a fall here. It's not like I am a literary genius or know anything about poetry.
But to use a traditional poetic query - FFS what is the point?
Here's my poetry effort, followed by a bit more moaning.
No. It's not very good. But at least it's more than three lines.
Poem about Crap
Oh yes.
Indeed.
I thought for fun,
I’d have a go at writing one.
Apparently,
And I say this without malice, much
It doesn’t matter how crap a poem is,
So long as it has the “poet’s” touch.
For some this may prove elusive but
They still can rip the words from out their butt
And publish it for all to see
To get some hits financially
Because when all is said and done
This poetry is the easy one.
No need to make much sense at all
Welcome every single one and all
A picture plus some twenty words
Who said that poetry is for the birds?
What Prompted this Artistic Effort?
I was driven to this poetic despair after reading very short pages purporting to be poetry.
Now I’m no expert, and there may be some deep and hidden meaning that I’m missing here, but a short piece of a few words about sunlight, death or anal leakage (I jest, if only) does not float my poetic boat.
It says to me “I’m whacking this piece of crap up in the hope of getting some easy money”.
Fair enough I suppose.
But at least I spend more than four nanoseconds whacking my bits of garbage up on the net.
Apology
To save a load of comments accusing me of having no poetic side or soul I offer this statement that could be construed as an apology.
OK. OK. I hear you. Your four sentence masterpiece consisting of some twenty words did indeed move me.
It moved me to hit the back arrow and get the hell out of there.
I appreciate that you may have spent days wrenching just the right words out of your tortured soul, and have sweated blood as you laboured away making sure that every precious syllable counted for something.
Although…
It is unlikely, in my opinion.
Suggestion for Very Short Poets
Stand on a box.
Suggestion for Poets who write very short poems
If these brilliant words are indeed a meaningful, moving piece of work – then how about writing an explanatory passage about it?
Then those of us who are of a less poetic, or indeed, gullible, nature might find the meaning that you intended.
We might, although it is perhaps unlikely where I am concerned, be inclined to cut you a bit of a slack in terms of the writing as little as you can in the hope of getting away with it department.
Poet Poll
Are very short poems...
See results without votingMy Poetic Licence
What right do I have to make such unfair and Philistine accusations about the quality or otherwise of great poet literary stuff?
None at all mate. It’s the internet - freedom of opinion and all that.
But to give some credence to my angle on this and to give an example of at least minimal effort – I have grouped this critical poetry page in among some of my own poetry works.
They are not great. Not even good. But I would argue long and loudly (although I am on a bit of a tight time schedule here)…
They aren’t total crap.
Er. Except for the ones that are supposed to be.
How can you tell which is which?
You can't. That's the beauty of art.
Haiku Update
I know now a little more about the Haiku.
How the simplicity of the three lines and seventeen syllables is a pure form of minimalist expression.
How I was wrong to judge the beauty of this when I have no beauty within me. Something like that anyway.
However.
On re examining the Haiku section on HubPages I am STILL struck by the amount of advertising versus the actual content. Essentially, no matter how beautiful or meaningful the few words may be, the average page consists of a photo, followed by three lines of text, followed by at least three adverts.
The advertising not being 'minimal' in any way, shape or form.
If I had written a Haiku that I honestly believed was a pure expression of artistic whatever, I would put sufficient spacing around the precious words to ensure that the advertising was kept well away from the text.
Perhaps it's just a formatting issue.
Rather than flag up any of these individually, as that would be unfair, I will link to Pearldiver's Haiku page below. Without knowing or understanding anything about the art form I can see the amount of effort put in.
No Problem with This...
- Haiku and A Southern Flow of New Zealand: A Life Circle: ‘I Am Here: This Land: This Place
Now this page is stunning. Filled with text, pictures and many Haiku (Haikus?), beautifully laid out - it is a real piece of work.
.
.
Oh My Lord
I did a bit more Wiki research on the Haiku art form.
Here are four examples from Wiki.
Maybe they lose something in the translation from the original Japanese.
Maybe the translator is not actually a professional but someone who has managed to blag their way into the job.
I don't really get any of them, and it is not at all clear to me who "Edo" is.
...
I had better make no further comment on these save that perhaps my view is the same as those who looked at the Tate "bricks" and couldn't understand it.
Whereas I could. Or I think I could.
There's a lot of scope in art for different opinions I think.
.
Three Haiku
- Jimi Hendrix Haiku
This is my genuine attempt at a Haiku. - Teletubby Spidey Haiku Ha
Haiku and Teletubby related humor - iPhone Haiku
Can you use Haiku to shift product? In a quest for art AND income, mainly income to be honest, I attempt to find out.
My Haiku
I have written some of my own Haiku since learning about this art form.
These pieces fulfil my Philistine goals of mockery, sarcasm and an element of humor.
Apart from the Hendrix one, which is a genuine attempt at an honest Haiku.
Can you tell the difference?
.
.
.
- Nearly One Hundred Poems and Haiku
A massive undertaking by one of HP's leading poet authority things. Not really.
One Hundred Poems
I thought I would write one hundred poems in order to prove a point about how easy it is to churn out substandard poetry by the bucket load.
I figured this would take an hour or so.
However, I failed. Got bored, ran out of time, whatever. Clearly I don't know what I'm talking about.
In my defence however, even when I set out to undermine, mock, rubbish and all those things - I still needed to have a certain pride in my substandard work.
So my sixteen poems (ed: seventeen?) stand as testament to something.
Stupidity, probably.
One Final Comment
Since writing this article, if I dare call it that, I have revisited it many times.
Not just to answer the comments which has been more demanding than usual, but also to tweak it and improve it.
I didn't do this purely because I was wondering about the finger of crap pointing at my pages and thought I'd better up my game in a literary sense. Obviously that was the main reason.
But I also did it because I have a misplaced pride in what I do. I want my article to be properly 'finished' and worth a read.
Everything you write, whether it is a three line poem or a two thousand word article, is an advert for your writing ability. It is out there for all to see.
Seems to me that it is worth putting a bit of effort in.
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Interesting. What do you think of hiaku? I think a short poem can be good if it says enough.. but there is some very bad poetry in the world. Many here on hub pages, sorry to say, write about feelings and tributes to dieties.. to me that is not literature.. I hope you don't get a lot of angry customers from this article. I am always open to criticism and you can feel free to tell me if my poems are to short.. lol. I love your sense of humor!
Hi guys. I thought there might be some, possibly justified, grievance from the proper poets. Haiku is short OK? So should a page that has three hundreds words of links and advertising only consist of a single Haiku and a photo?
Is it really worth clicking the mouse button to read nine words?
I'm very open to opinions on this though, so opposing views are fine.
For my next hub I plan to write one hundred short poems. About an hours work I reckon, but it will be an interesting exercise. Of course - they won't be any good, but then who's to judge?
My point is about length of page. Maybe it should have more than one Haiku on it. Or maybe they could shrink the pages - sort of thumbnails of them.
Personally, not being into poetry, I rarely read it. As to Haiku's -- I'm with the author. How about a few more words to tell us what's on your mind that drove you to write this? I notice there are "poets" on Hubpages that publish several a day -- every day. Wow, they must be creative geniuses to churn out so many masterpieces in such a short time.
Crap hub you have going here. You don't understand the creative process at all. Three line poems usually paint beautiful images and pictures in our mind. Economy of words does not mean lack of poetry, thought or inspiration by any means. It can take days to write a "crap" three line poem. Try it. But, in haikus, for example, there are definite rules you have to follow. They are the expression of Japanese culture. You have not studied poetry nor do you care about it. I have and do. A poem can be one word if that is what the poet wants. Example: CRAP!
That is my poem. I don't care if you like it or not. I don't care if you think it is poetry or not. Lump it if you don't like it. It is my expression of your hub and just as worthy as any tome you have written on the poetry subject. THINK before you criticize.
Don't be so sure that what you write isn't CRAP! It is.
Mark - Funny, funny Hub, and I share your concerns. I love really well-done Haiku, but is pretty frustrating for those of us who labor 2-4 hours to produce a prose or long poetic Hub to see someone post 3 -4 - 5 -6 very short poems in a single day. Shouldn't there be a little more content?
I agree with Cardisa that we cannot discount Haiku as a poetic form, but what if there were a word minimum or the expectation that a Hub could/should contain 3 or 4 Haiku or very short poems?
Recipes, which are quite short for the most part are good for comparison purposes. Six to 10 lines of ingredients with the instruction to "Stir thoroughly" does not make a good Hub.
Hubs about recipes usually go into detail about the preparation methods, usually have several pictures, often provide a little history or about the food or recipe, and often include alternate versions of a dish. Many food/recipe Hubs provide a cultural or sociological journey as well; these are very good Hubs.
All that said, I really like poetry; I am currently editing a volume of my Polish immigrant grandmother's poems. But I also see the great disparity in content of these Hubs and I am very sympathetic to the concerns you expressed (with humor).
I think HP makes exception to the rules of content when it comes to poetry because there are different types and styles of poems. I also believe it's the poet's responsibility to make sure they don't take advantage of the situation by overcrowding the page with links and other stuff.
I believe that maybe HP should reconsider product and link placements for poetry hubs. I don't write Haiku bacause my thoughts usually are longer than that but I like to read them more than some boring long never ending poems. I don't see you ranting about those! lol
Crap is what this hub is. I see you did not approve my comments. I guess you can dish it out, but you can't take it? This is exactly the behavior of bullies which is what you are exhibiting, as well as cowardliness.
Er Suzette, I didn't approve your comment because I was away from the computer and I don't allow pre approval.
Funnily enough for some of that time I was looking up Haiku and trying to understand it.
I agree that there may be some beautiful and hard worked Haiku's and poems out there. Unfortunately, as anyone honest will admit, there is also a steaming pile of.. .well you know.
Now. I make no claims as to the quality of my work, but it does require a minimal effort, it does fill up the page sufficiently to give some balance to the aggressive advertising and hopefully it give the searcher something when they stumble on it.
So if they search for the title they will get a page of fifteen hundred (boring) words around the subject they looked for.
I guess, with hindsight, that if someone Googles Sunshine Haiku - they will also get what they are looking for.
Anyhow. I have more research to do on this thing. I now want to write one, or more accurately, one hundred, as earlier threatened.
I will probably approve pretty much anything, comment wise, it all adds to the flavour and... it's only the internet.
Freedom of Speech! Speak what you feel! What you may think as crap others may think divine!Really how old are we here... Mark silence is never the answer :))) Like the saying says closed mouths don't get fed so open wide and eat! lol
smiles :)
bella
Hi Cardisa, apologies for late reply, but I was trying to marshall my thoughts. No, I didn't go on about long borign peoms (or articles) because this page was about too short poems.
I only wrote it because I had probably done a little too much Hub Hopping, and after a lot of poetry I was beginning to... well, I wrote it anyway.
Hi Bella. Sheesh, I'll never get my own Haiku done. It is impossible and unfair to attempt to judge anyone's work... although... well. I'm not convinced that three lines and about nine words is really sufficient.
But hey. Let me check out the rules and see if I can put my big fat mouth where the money is.
:) I wish no harm just saying that we are all entitled to think and beileve what we want the topic is very double standard but hey its ones own opinion we cannot please everyone with what we say we win some we lose some! :)) Hope your day is fab.
:))
You are one funny guy Mark Ewbie. And that is not a short poem! Cheers, snakeslane
Cheers Snakelane. I went out on a bit of a limb with this one.
That is an apt metaphor, I will be watching this page with interest.
As someone who is one of your followers I'm used to you writing satire. In fact, if anyone wants to look at the topic this page is under it is "Satirical Poetry." That's an essential piece of information in reading this. I do write a lot of haiku, but I am not at all offended by this. I know you aren't a fan of poetry in general and not all people are. How boring if we all liked the same thing.
I tend to set my ad level to medium when the poem is short so it isn't overwhelmed by ads around it. And nobody clicks on ads for poetry, so I don't think I'm missing anything by doing this.
Regarding the moderating comments, I've been doing this for a while. I only disapprove spam comments. But it means that legitimate comments left overnight have to wait until I wake up.
Mark: Sorry, I don't see this as satire. If you have to point out the satire to me, you missed your point. I see this as meanspirited, therefore, you need to work at writing true satire. I don't see anything funny or humorous in this piece of writing.
No. It's probably miscategorized. If you could suggest a better place to put it then I'd be very grateful. I did look for a too short poems section but couldn't find one.
Maybe I could retitle it "My Love for the Haiku" and hope to get a bit of money in there?
Re. the humour. Come to think of it I don't think I labelled it as humor. Rant I believe.
Edit: Yes. I checked. It still says Rant in the title. Phew. That's a relief.
Mark, just so you know, I'm right there with you. I think most poetry (long or short) isn't worth the paper it's printed on or the screen it's typed onto. That being said, I absolutely adore Emily Dickinson, and much of what she wrote was very short, even in terms of poetry. Thankfully, I'm actually intelligent enough to know A)what a rant is and B)that you weren't saying all poetry is crap, just that a lot of what people CALL poetry actually is.
Got your back, man. Going to read your 100 short poems now. :)
Thanks Motown, in many ways :)
This sentence is
broken
into four lines, making
it poetry, a subject of reverence.
Not! (could not get rid of the extra spaces. I guess they make it more poetic)
Bad poets fail (or do not wish) to recognise two fundamental principles followed by all true poets:
1. Poetry is written to rules, either standard rules of rhyme, metre, alliteration etc, or self-imposed rules, whatever they may be. This acts as an effective restraint against self-indulgent logorrhoea.
2. Poetry distils an idea, emotion or experience that is common to many or even all human beings into a form that requires the subject to be looked at in a new way.
I didn't know I could set my ads, so I've actually learned something here (though still don't know how to do that). I write (and read) Haiku. I enjoy it, but not surprised that others would not appreciate. Back arrow and out, easy... I love how you are at least making the effort Mark (on your 100 Poems hub). Haiku Hai!
Mark, I don't know what rattled so many cages, but call me ingenuous, I thought your hub was as amusing... Nay! (says he poetically) entertaining and all the rest of that stuff that you are good at, as usual.
Work out what I meant by the above badly written, run on sentence, if you will.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you have written whether it was written in jest or not.
There is a lot of "poetry" that appears on hub pages that is unmitigated crap... Long or short, much if it is deplorable.
Nothing like a bit of satire to draw the ire of the preciously protective. Love it!
Personally, I don't think there should be any rules about creative expression. In any form. (Including poetry and satire, to stay on topic). To me, there's no wrong, no right, just different.
The net is a great enabler for people to not only demonstrate skill in a particular genre, but also try their hand at new forms of writing, and in contrast with the old days, 'publish' their efforts. Not all of which will be worthy, in the eyes of others.
It's also a great enabler for people interested enough to open their minds and look at stuff they wouldn't have bothered getting from the library (remember those?)because they don't like "....." (fill in with your own area of non-interest). There's no cost, and no need to persevere. If something fails to reach you, then as you say, back arrow, and back to browsing.
I don't agree with people who (preciously)demand that creative expression must conform to specific classifications or rigid structural forms. That's why it's called 'creative' expression, not constricted expression.
It's worth remembering that nothing in the world would ever have been invented, if not for people creative enough to see things not as they are, but as they could be. People prepared to challenge The Rules. Writing should be no different.
More than anything, I challenge the belief that *effective communication*, in any form, has anything to do with an ideal length or word count. An idea takes the time it takes, and the form it takes, to be expressed well. Note my earlier rider re *effective*; an enormous amount of what we see online would never have been allowed out in public in earlier times, and still shouldn't be. But that's the price of free expression. And it's not a high price. In the end, readers make the call, as is their right.(Refer 'back arrow').
Sometimes, (in my personal experience) when you set out to communicate something, it takes you by surprise by coming out in a form that's totally unfamiliar to you.(You'll know the one I mean, Mark.)
And if people not generally interested in that form either, decide to take a look anyway, they too can sometimes be surprised. (If not pleasantly, refer back arrow again.)
Having said all that, I do agree that the net is full of pointless crap. And in the more esoteric genres, much of it tortured, strained, and self-indulgent. In which regard, I quote F Scott Fitzgerald,
"You don't write because you want to say something, you write because you have something to say.”
If people followed that discipline before hitting 'publish', I think we'd all be better off.
Set your ads to stun! I think everyone should now publish one haiku, it is your responsibility. Look through the haikus here for inspiration. Spend some time reflecting. Take 3 minutes and 12 seconds to type it out. If you are a novice, you must count your syllables, don't go over!
I'm beginning to wonder if this was a good idea. Ah well.
Twilight - I am relieved to hear your voice as one of those recognised poetry people. I did manage to deconstruct your sentence, which reminded me not to mangle my own quite so much.
WO - I will answer you more fully on the 'other' page.
JB - I am not entirely clear on the 3 minute rule, but ads on stun I think I'm in agreement with.
stun? set ads to stun? Was ist das?
I think JB is just rapping either with me, or at me. Whichever, I went with the flow of it. As far as I am aware there isn't a stun setting - more's the pity.
Geez people if you are so concerned with format or freedom of expression then maybe take a little time to heed on the comment section. Some "poets" tend to write with this format with no real intentions just a short passage with no explanation, this can be frustrating for the reader.
I feel those who commented with wrath against the author may fall under the shortened construction of their own poetic shortcomings.
At any rate, I follow your ideas behind it Mark. I agree, while Haiku is an art of sorts it may not be what this platform supports as quality content. Articles of 400 words and up are the ones that have some uph for a reader to read.
To each their own I suppose.
Mark...There are a lot of poets (and, in some instances, would-be poets) publishing on Hubpages, just as there are some really good prose writers on HP (as well as some aspiring writers who don't set very high standards for their output). I agree with WO that much of what is found here is self-indulgent, but that's the nature of the HP beast. The unreadable stuff is--as pointed out in several prior comments--good reason for readers to employ the BACK arrow when the words on the screen make them cringe.
I'm definitely not a poet, having written only a few poems in my lifetime, none of which adhere to any strict poetry rules (though they tend to rhyme or at least have a certain rhythm, even if not within the formal guidelines of meter).
Some of these fit blatantly into the "sentimental" category, but a couple present a particular message I wanted to convey. Don't ask me why I chose that form of expression. I suppose "the spirit just moved me", so to speak. A few of my poems are published on HP, but none garnered much traffic or comments. Fortunately, I can take a hint! I haven't been moved to write any more poetry lately.
I do, however, enjoy reading poetry with satisfying imagery and a clever use of words, whether the form is long or short. While the length of a poem per se doesn't affect my acceptance or enjoyment of it, I do have certain criteria which determine whether or not I'll read past the first line or two. Poetry that is either cloyingly sentimental or so abstract as to be obtuse loses me for its audience. (The latter style reminds me of the manner in which Jackson Pollock threw paint at a canvas. Unrelated words thrown against a wall to see which will stick and in what juxtiposition do not "speak" to me.)
I normally write nonfiction (articles or essays)and some short fiction. Personally, I enjoy reading satire, and am only envious that I do not possess the ability to write it. I recognize the limitations of my writing talent and strive to write as well as I can within the scope of my ability.
That said, I consider myself a fairly thick-skinned writer, though it took me years to develop a hide off which jibes will bounce. Candid critiques of anything I publish on Hubpages are welcomed, including total silence (or, lack of comments) which actually says quite a lot!
Regards,
JAYE
Hi Jaye, just a point of my own about the 'non poet' thing. I have actually written a couple of genuine pieces that could loosely be called poetry, or perhaps more realistically 'artistic' prose - because like you, I felt the message I wanted to convey was a feeling that fitted that format better.
No traffic of course, but the pieces were not for other people anyway - they were for me. Perhaps in earlier days I would have put them on a piece of paper and hidden it in a drawer - I think it is a plus that HubPages allows such freedom of expression.
So funny Mark, and for what it is worth I am with you on this. It reminded me of something my Sister said years ago about 'Modern Art' (you know what I mean, those random blobs on canvas that some people seem to rave about, and normal people just don't 'get'!). She said 'Modern art is something done by people who can't really paint'. She herself is an excellent artist, and has won numerous competitions for her artwork, and what she draws is recognizable for what it is meant to be. I quoted what she had said at a later date to a teacher at my school at the time, he laughed and said, 'actually that is true and is exactly why I used to draw modern art'.
'The Emperors New Clothes' spring to mind. Most people don't 'get it' but no-one want to look uncultured or impolite by pointing out it is rubbish.
Gosh, Mark, you kicked a hornets nest here and to unsurprisingly (Is there such a word?) good effect.
I loved the comments that have been posted, and in reading WOL's brilliant (as in BRILLIANT) comment, I was moved to cry out, "I want to have your babies, WOL", but modesty forbade.
I am going to follow this hub and all its replies, right up to and following your stoning in a public space somewhere.
Attaboy!
Hi Twilight, yes I am slightly surprised by it's popularity. Looking forward to being stoned in a public place, long time since I last did that.
Just stopped back by to check the latest comments (Twilight Lawns is right--the comments for this hub are very interesting).
I realize that my own comment leaves the impression that I only enjoy poetry that is (1) full of imagery and (2) clever. Not so! I especially like verse that tells a story, from Shakespeare's plays in iambic pentameter to the rustic Yukon ballads of Robert Service.
At the same time, I enjoy poetry expressing emotion or feelings to which I can relate, as well as verse (rhymed or free) that captures my imagination.
Fortunately, such a stylistic smorgasbord of poetry exists that there seems to be something for everyone, even those readers who might not think of themselves as poetry buffs.
While I read more prose than any type of poetry, I'm glad it needn't be an "either/or" decision.
Regards,
Jaye
Hi Mark, hope you don't mind me posting this link (delete it if you do), but this is one of my favourite poems that to me epitomises what poetry should be all about, a story and one that rhymes with meaning. The poem is an old one, but well loved by me, and great for Halloween:
I still say this hub is unwarranted criticism and not constructive criticism. There is a difference, though I don't think you care to know this. Your point is to be irreverent and that you have accomplished.
Mark,
I noticed a "rebuttal" about this piece, so came to view it. I like poetry, in fact I just published a book of it. But I share your opinion of much of what is called poetry on HP. Much of it is crap. I understand the Haiku is short and formed. But when a person writes the :
I loved him so
How could he go
I can't go on
Now that he's gone
and I've taken hours to research and write a hub, it seems really unfair. HP should make a separate set of rules and place for poets. And alot of this crap is NOT poetry.
Misty - yes. That's what I'd call a poem too.
Suzette - I'm not really interested in being constructive. I just had a rant, and tried to stay on the side of humour, or at least sarcasm, or maybe readability. One thing I didn't do is single out any author or page for direct criticism. I wouldn't do that.
Jean - when I read your example I assumed it was one of my spoof poetry examples, but no, I guess not.
suzettenaples, we have an expression in the UK that goes like this:
"Get a life!"
Perhaps you know it.
You use the word “irreverent”. I don’t think this really applies when Mark has written a light-hearted "rant" against a certain amount of "poets" who think that because they can drag a few rhyming words together they have produced a poem.
This is not Holy Scripture, and the word "irreverent" would be more likely to be used when criticising such
Some of the synonyms of irreverent are: blasphemous, impious, profane, and sacrilegious
I think Jean Bakula hits the nail firmly on the head when she includes the “Deeply moving, perfectly written:
“I loved him so
How could he go
I can't go on
Now that he's gone”
The only thing that Jean has neglected to do is throw in a few bad spellings and incorrect punctuations. There are a good deal of “poets” on Hub Pages who don’t seem to realize that the English Language has form, structure and rules.
Hey ho! This terminates my rant, for the present.
Thank you Twilight Lawns, for you insightful thoughts about my "deeply moving, perfectly written" piece, which took 45 seconds to write. I do sympathize with people who have had their hearts broken, and understand they need to express their feelings. But it's not poetry. We all get our hearts broken at one time or another, and must move on.
Mark-Sorry to confuse you. I didn't mean to plagerize your spoof piece. I apologize. Great minds think alike.
No problem Jean, I think it is superb. I was so frazzled by events and poetry writing that I thought maybe it was one of mine. Actually though, I think it is a top quality example of the genre.
Ha!
(And because Hub Pages say my comment is rather short),
Ha! again
Hey!
edit: Apparently hey! is fine. Re. your commenter level of 8 - well done!
I don't understand all the hype about Haikus either. But my son is the Asst. Director of a Martial Arts school, and his teacher/mentor loves the Japanese culture, and lived there to study for years. So my son is always reading stuff about Zen and the like. People in Japan and China think much differently than we do. Maybe it does have something to do with the language thing, since they write in symbols? It may translate differently than it was meant if it was originally in Japanese. Oh, never mind.
Jean, I am now almost an expert. The Western thing is a pale imitation because we have characters as you said. I didn't understand the Wiki Japanese symbol thing, but it would imply the Japanese are working at a different level / get more out of it / put more into it.
I will admit that there is quite a lot to Haiku, the simplicity of the form. It is, without wanting to get shot by the purists, the Sudoku of poetry. Sort of.
It doesn't alter the thrust of my complaint, they could still write an explanation, or several Haiku or something - but I now accept that a three line Haiku is a valid form of expression.
Well, we learn something new all the time. The Japanese are masters of simplicity, and of conformity too. I agree that the Haiku is a valid form of poetry. But then maybe the hubber should have to write several.
I have really enjoyed your hub and the ensuing comments left for you. You didn't irritate me the way you did others on here, but rather I found your observations amusing. I am fond of the haiku, but understand that it can be abused and misused to churn out hubs by the number rather than for quality's sake. Another thought, in reference to the remark about poets writing poems that make no sense, I have written a few poems that may not make a lot of sense to those who read it, but it makes me complete sense to me because I am the one writing it. In these instances, I try to at least make my metaphors and analogies interesting to read, so that if you can't exactly understand it, you can enjoy it and read between the lines to guess at my nuances. Just another way to enjoy poetry. In the long run, authors who fling "nothing" type hubs out there will only end up hurting themselves with their lack of quality, so don't even worry about them!
Excuse me Mark, could I please speak to suzettenaples?
Suzette, you are of course entitled to your opinion, regarding 'irreverence' and 'unwarranted criticism'.
But, as a writer / poet (I assume) you must also be aware that very few writers (of any skill)are purely one-dimensional, and it seems strange to me that you should upset yourself so much over just one example of the Ewbie art. Perhaps laughing doesn't come easily, when the topic is so obviously very 'precious' to you?
Given your less than fair, "Crap is what this hub is" critique (most people would at least add, 'in my opinion')I suspect you'll laugh mockingly, or at least smile patronisingly at the term Ewbie art, but again 'most people' have the grace to acknowledge that we don't all like the same thing. Satire, believe it or not, is as valid a form of creative expression as, say, poetry.
Could I suggest, respectfully and seriously, that you visit Mark's associated hub "Nearly One Hundred poems", where you may be quite surprised at the level of indepth commentary, and resulting dialogue, which I'm sure will reassure you that deep analysis of unfamiliar forms,(I myself have provided a constructive critique of a particular haiku contained within the 17 poems so far featured) is matched by an obvious respect for such, from Mark, as author.
I know you'll be surprised. In which context, I'd refer to a thematic element that both myself and Twilight Lawns, (whose comment to you precedes mine), aim for in our own work, and which is particularly apt in this instance; "All is seldom as it seems".
How about it suzette, are you up for a challenge?
ExoticHippieQueen - thanks for your comment. I am glad I didn't irritate you and that you found elements of it amusing. My aim is always to produce something worth a read, regardless of the subject matter.
Had I understood the Haiku would I have still written it? I'm less sure. But there's at least one person now who does know more about it - ie. me.
ExoticHippieQueen, I love the way you have given your reason for writing your more personal and other poetry. Surely the whole point of the difference between prose and poetry is the emotions derived from the latter... If one wanted to make things particularly clear, then prose would be the vehicle. This next encapsulates all I feel about writing poetry:
" In these instances, I try to at least make my metaphors and analogies interesting to read, so that if you can't exactly understand it, you can enjoy it and read between the lines to guess at my nuances."
Thank you for putting it so clearly and so elegantly.
And WOL, I am flattered that you even noted me grumbling and snuffling in the corner, here.
I bow you your defence of a very talented writer and to the defence of his hub.
Bring it on, Suzette.
Why are you taking it so personally Suzette?
GO Markie - kick that hornets' nest again. I can get you a great deal on stones, if you haven't received enough here yet! :D
Mark...
I saw your call on the Hubsville PA system announcing your intention to republish this in an effort to generate comments. I am very susceptible to suggestion...so here I am.
I feel your pain, my friend. Oftentimes...my efforts to be supportive of our friends in the poetic community fall flat due to my inability to understand what it is I'm supporting. It is at these times I feel like a lout.
Perhaps if the message contained more than nine words? I also get confused if it doesn't rhyme. Truly...I am lout like.
I hope you have an outstanding New Year, Mark! I am very glad we have become acquainted in the year that went so fast...2011.
Thomas
Lol RedElf, I figured it's time to end the season of goodwill.
Thomas, it has been a pleasure and an instruction reading some of your work. Hope 2012 is good for you. Oh, and thanks for being susceptible, next up, a donations page.
Wow, an open forum for ranting, crying and just plain fun. Outstanding Mark, you really do have your finger on the pulse of the poet inside.
Thanks for the stimulating read...
Mike
Howdy Mark - Well, just like speeches and interminable yakking by those who require several hours in which to tell us all that they do not know, some long poems are not worth the ink with which they are scribed. Likewise, some short poems are also real dogs - like Haiku, for example.
I go for funny (dumb) poems. In addition to being at least somewhat funny and generative of a smile or more, short poems tend to be funnier than the long ones. If there are any rules involved, other than presenting some humor with the poet's words, the lines of the poem should rhyme (important) and the rythm (cadence if you like) should be there.
I know of only one person who was said to earn a living writing short and funny poems - Ogden Nash. Some of his best were very word-parsimonious, had real meaning that anyone could understand, and were funny. Nash liked to invent his own new words, but they all seemed to work well. As to shorties such as Haiku, he would have followed up on reading those by swallowing lots of Pepto-Bismol - or maybe a big glassful of bourbon or vodka. Here's one that Nash wrote that illustrates the point...
Rhinocerous,
Prepocerous!
Happy New Year, Everyone Gus:-)))
Hi Mike. Fingers round the throat maybe?
Gus - thanks for the poetry advice, I need to check out Nash. Long does not mean any good that's for sure. And HNY to you, and everyone, of course...
I like this Nash poem:
Sure, deck your limbs in pants,
Yours are the limbs, my sweeting.
You look divine as you advance . . .
Have you seen yourself retreating?
Wow, Mark, have not seen such anger since I last wrote a religious hub! Well done for raising pulses.
Sadly, as Twilight knows all too well, my name should be Phyllis Stein ... poetry usually bores me ... unless it is Wilfred Owen or Rupert Brooke or dearest Twilight, of course.
And haikus must lose something in translation as they rarely paint pictures in my mind.
For minimal cleverness with words you can't beat some tweets.
Angle, I will love you forever,. or even after next tuesday for that mention.
Mwah!
Ian
And I have to say, Anglie, Mark, Gus the Redneck and Uninvited Writer, this is one of my favourite Nash poems:
The Lion
"Oh, weep for Mr. and Mrs. Bryan!
He was eaten by a lion;
Following which, the lion's lioness
Up and swallowed Bryan's Bryaness."
I'm so glad someone mentioned Ogden Nash, whose short humorous poems are fun and, thus, easily remembered, such as:
The cow is of the bovine ilk;
One end is moo, the other, milk.
AND
Candy is dandy,
but liquor is quicker.
OR
I often wonder which is mine,
Tolerance or a rubber spine
There is also a longer humorous poem Nash wrote that I didn't memorize, but which I often heard quoted. The poem's theme has to do with whether or not the narrator would trade his simple life for that of a more affluent person...Does anyone recall it? The last line: "Of course I would!"
If I had any great desire to write poetry, which (lucky for HP readers) I don't, I would hope to be inspired by humor for my verses.
Happy New Year One and All!
JAYE
A poem for this rant called, Some People’s Poems
Hideous pigswill!
They’ve never read even one.
Why call it a poem?
Up with Limericks - down with Haikus....
I agree with you Mark.... "poets" who churn out several "moving", "heart felt", "anguished"..3 Line poems every hour which make as much sense as a snowboard in the Sahara and surround them with more adds than the average daily intake for my spam box on my 10 year old email account are hardly considering the art!
To the true poets who endure agony to churn out a piece every 200 years which could move the Buddha to tears - well done! I am sure someone out there really understands and loves your work....
Me I prefer something like....
"Down from the pole came one eyed mick, the only man with a corkscrew (whatsit - please insert the correct rhymed word, this is not helping my prose it it!)
He roamed the world from pole to pole to find a girl with a corkscrew hole.
When he found her he dropped down dead the stupid B(female canine) had a left hand thread...."
Happy new year Mark - enjoy your 2012, looking forward to some more deep and meaningful hubs on more controversial subjects...
I forgot to add the famous poem by Messrs Ronnie and Ronnie;
"Georgie Porgie pudding and pie,
Kissed the girls and made them cry.
When the Boys came out to play,
He kissed them too;
hes funny that way."
Now that's poetry!
Hmmm. That Ogen Nash undermines my argument about short poems. I love the moo and milk one. I'd still probably flag him for too short content. Not really. I'm done with hopping poetry.
Limericks are much easier to judge than Haiku. The quality of a limerick jumps right out at you. I'm not entirely sure whether the Irish claim this as an ancient art form, but they should do.
Don't worry about Haiku hopping, Mark ... they can't touch you for it.
Great discussion! Now let's all click and make up.
Well... let's not make up until I get to page one of the Hot Hubs please.
Er.
Poet's smell funny.
That should do it.
This is nothing new, Mark. Size matters...a universal truth. Length is important ...but there also needs to be substance or it just leaves one with a feeling of profound emptiness..like why did you even bother followed by incredible disappointment and then lack of further interest.
Some writers are better endowed with a natural ability to make something that could have been said in a few words last a lot longer. Shadesbreath for example. Now he knows how to take a reader for a good ride. He has what is technically known as textual stamina. This accounts for his popularity amongst both men and women.
Unfortunately, as you pointed out...there are some writers that think the minimalist approach will work and while I believe they are to be pitied...is it really fair of us to point out their shortcomings in such a public way?
With that said, I must confess that poetry writing came before my creative expression in prose (although only a couple of these poems are published on hubpages). Rather than discourage anyone from expressing themselves, I would constructively choose to point out why I did or didn't like it. Hubpages is a community and within it are many neighborhoods. Cruising a particular area that you don't lilve in and using it for fodder to entertain may be a commonly accepted practice for the sake of humor...but it still comes across as rather mean-spirited to the inhabitants.
I enjoyed your hub for your usual humor...I just might not have put myself in the position to judge so harshly.
Hi Spryte. I like "textual stamina".
1.With hindsight I might not have bothered writing this, but the Hub Hopper was driving me insane. The number of very short poems seemed spammy to me.
2. I did not, and would not single anyone out. If someone wrote a short poem yesterday, and honestly tried, then well done to you. I wasn't picking on a particular poem.
3. I have often been guilty of padding articles out.
4. I am well aware of how hard it is to publish stuff, and how important encouragement is.
That's about it. I wrote a page. Other people wrote poems. I didn't seek them out - the bloody Hub Hopper kept presenting them to me.
I haven't been Hopping since!
You are now the simon cowell of poetry hahah. You say things that are true but still sometimes unpopular. I loved your article.
Thanks Seo! I have tried to tweak "rant" out of it and "humor" into it, but given the title there's a limit to how far I can go.
I guess I'm just stuck with wearing Simon's trousers.
The only 'rant' we need to endure right now Mark, is the one in 'current' as I vote you up as hot favorite here. Stimulating and invigorating - I dub you the 'Bear Grylls' of Hubpages - always seeking new horizons for adventures on HubPages.
Lol Chs - great comment. I write what I think about sometimes, it's all a bit random. Apart from the one constant in my literary quest - the stickman.
That's until someone writes a page about Crap Too Short Stickmen on HubPages.
I admire Simon's Cowell's brutal honesty too, although not so much his trousers! :D
A great writer can express with few words what it takes others many. The key is quality not quantity and if it was easy everyone would do it.
17 syllables is still pushing it if you ask me. I have never yet read a good poem/rhyme/whatever in 17 syllables and I doubt I ever will read one that truly impresses me. You might achieve quality over quantity in a few verses, but THAT is an achievable goal, not an unrealistic one!
Shortest poem I remember...entitled "Fleas"
Adam
Had 'em
Perhaps Homer should have considered that when "eh" wrote the 'Iliad' and the 'Odyssey'
Or Lord Byron should have considered cutting 'Don Juan' down to a couple of verses.
Innuentendre, you comment is a little patronising, don't you think?
My intent is not to patronize Twilight Lawns, I keep an open mind regarding expression. I know that unfounded criticism may deter fragile or aspiring poets from presenting their work, which is the last thing that I want to do. Despite the greats which you have mentioned, I encourage amateur poets to continue to share their short poetry, which we in our arrogance may consider crap. This being the hub's topic, I feel that my previous comment is appropriate.
And I agree completely to the appropriateness of the comment. Believe me. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers.
But why , do you think, are the Hub Pages Police not looking more into the huge amount of awful "poems" which appear on a regular basis in these pages?
There are some who manage to churn out one a day (at least) and think they are writing stuff of worth. The spelling is usually awful, the punctuation is frequently awful, and the attempts at rhyme are deplorably awful... and then some Oik comes along and says that they are AWESOME, BEAUTIFUL, MOVING, INSPIRATIONAL.
I feel like leading a jihad against them, but why bother?
that's what gets me... the worst crappy poetry always gets one hubber to say "... oh so great. i loved it."
I've just had a thought, Shea Duane; maybe the hubber who makes those comments can't read and they think that they have found the AWFUL button, and press the AWESOME button.
Maybe not, they frequently compound their crimes, by saying "... oh so great. i loved it."
I guess you noticed that. Ha ha!
Twilight, sometimes I really want to post 'awful' in the comment box, but I don't want to be a total @##&@&% to some young poet who has never had a teacher show him or her a poem. I guess, I blame society...
I'm going to have to point out, again, that I didn't want to pick on young nervous fledgling poets. I thought I had hit on a rich vein of spammers. All of us writers need encouragement and that is what makes HP such a great place to be.
Now of course I have completely undone all my rant work, but I suspect not many people will read down this far.
For myself, HP enabled me to become a confident writer, and not even to flinch to much when I dared say the word... writer. I never wanted to upset or dismiss people who are genuinely trying their best.
Shea Duane and Mark, now you have made me feel like an insufferable old ogre. I know I am, but I just liked living in a sweet, benevolent old chap world....
Hey ho!
Truth will out, I suppose.
My feathers don't ruffle easily Twighlight Lawn. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Thanks for the apology and good luck with your jihad!
No twilight, many of these 'poets' are just stroking their own talentless egos lol. you're no ogre, just a person with a eye for real artistry. Godspeed to you sir!
Twilight - there could not be a nicer man. No, it is I who am the weasel, trying to wriggle out of my original words.
Mark- You're a panic! Anyone who takes offense to this hub is probably guilty as charged! Real poets sweat and bleed them out. No matter what the length, their poems are heavily edited and honed before they dare publish. Hacks, on the other hand, vomit them out. No matter what the length, these poems are left unedited and rough and they don't think twice about publishing them.
I consider this an act of total poetic savagery and complete narcissism. These are the people who think, "Hell, if I wrote it, it's got to be good!" and proudly publish a rough draft, as opposed to actual writers who think, "Hell, if I wrote it, it must be utter crap," and ruthlessly edit it before they dare hit the button.
Yes, poetry requires economy at all costs, but it's not measured in word count. Poetic economy is measured in quality. Anyone who wants to argue with that can take me on.
And as for the ads... how do I disable them? They're just junking up my creative product. Anyone writing poetry for money is delusional anyway. Personally, I'm doing it for the exposure. I figure I'll get rich posthumously. Cheers!
Hi Steele, thanks, great comment. Posthumously, I like it.
Ads. Obviously I turn mine up to the max, but then I just want the money. To change..
Edit the page. Under all the capsule stuff is a line with reorder, tags, settings... choose settings. It's there - Ads, commercial or something.
Edo is the old name for Tokyo,it's not nice to make fun of haiku.The real meaning of the poems are better understood in Japanese Language.Matsou Bashuo[1644-1694] wrote the wind from Mt.Fuji....,Haiku is evocative,profound and beautiful. Translation in to English Language reduces the beauty Of Haiku.
Thanks Khadeejah, and I agree. I was making fun of very amateur haiku and very short poems. I learnt something doing this page.
You are welcome and I also learnt .
It seems like you learned something along this journey. I appreciated the honesty in the beginning, even if you were not aware of the different forms of poetry. I also appreciate the fact that you didn't close your ears, and did some further research into the matter. All that being said, some poets really can be full of it so don't be afraid to call them out. Just do it in a way where you won't take any back lash. Questions beget knowledge.
Hi PhillyDreamer. Yes, it was an interesting experience for me. A one off rant really, but I learnt a bit about the Haiku, met some poets, read some poetry and came out a bit wiser.
On balance I'm still glad I ranted, and I'm hopeful not too many poets were upset by it.
I read the Hub and I was thinking to myself, this is gonna be a disaster. Poet's are touchy about their words and are experts in vilifying people. It was very funny, cause I thought about all the bad poems i read and I wanted to say " Finally someones brave enough to say it".
you wouldn't know good poetry if it lived with you. I don't see any thing that you have put out that would even be considered as Crap, because it's probably just what your writing can even amount to. Get a life and stop being envious of people who have true writing talent.
Lol. A poet arrives! Well, a sort of poet would be my guess. Hey fella, how about taking your head of your ass, and getting on with writing some grade A poetry instead?
Or you can carry on in this vein if you like. I'm up for it. It's all traffic.
LOL Mark, I didn't think it would be long before you responded to that one. I had to restrain myself from doing it for you!
Hey Misty, just what I need after a bit of a rubbish day at work. Someone who wants to have a go. Ah well, all good old knockabout stuff I guess.
You don't suppose he means envious of him, do you?
Quite possibly Mark, after all you have already got a huge following of people who love your work, and you did win the 'Funniest Writer' Hubpages award, so you must have achieved the status of 'enviable' by now ;)
Thanks Misty! I owe you...
What did you win it for your recipe on how to make brownies? But out misty you don't have a clue.
Mark You are such a blowhardand I mean blow hard.your Funniest writer award must have went to you head after all if I wrote hundreds of hubs of crap I sure they would find an award for my crap.
Whoa. A joke's a joke and all that. So you don't like my page, not that you read it, or the comments, or understand it.
You maybe also don't like that my English is streets ahead of yours (I checked some of your stuff), or that I can write with humor and intelligence on a variety of subjects.
Perhaps as a poet you find something soothing about leaving what are frankly rather moronic and boring, and childish comments, on people's pages?
Or maybe, friend, you are just another second rater.
try to remember to ignore trolls, Mark. Let them leave their comments then pretend that the comment isn't there. They'll move on to something else. I spent a lot of time on someone who wanted to let me know how stupid my choice of photographs was. Then I stopped responding, set my comments on moderate, and the person never left a comment on a hub of mine again.
You're right of course Flora. But I was just sat here, in a fairly foul mood anyway, and this popped up. So, I can spare a few minutes, and it stops me thinking about work.
The silly thing is, the more he / she / it comments, the more views this page gets.
Anyway. Good job he didn't find one of my really poor pages... phew!
Hey Mark,I find it sad that people nag others using poor grammar and bad punctuation. If a nagger wants to be taken seriously, he or she should learn the language.
I have to agree Shea. I'm not a grammar fascist, but there are levels I think. A great barb, wittily expressed and cutting, could get away with the odd typo.
I also have no problem with people objecting to the tone or content of my page - but there are ways of doing it.
Funny Mark my thoughts have been similar to yours- you are bot alone!
Some of it is a bit short shall we say. Nice to see cleaner3's comments have given this a new lease of life.
It's an ill wind and all that...
Wow- this is getting intense. I think somebody needs a Xanax...
Mark We have been through this before, but who do you think you are? You have no right to tell other people whether thier writing is crap.Who told you that you were the judge .You pompous clown
No worries Mark, look at his profile, his aim is to be a writer and ultimately a teacher, and you know what they say about teachers, "Those who can, do.... those who can't teach". All I can say is God help the children he may or may not end up teaching if this is the example he is planning to set.
You don't 'owe me' anything by the way. I only speak as I find, and you are leagues ahead of this guy both in manners and talent. :)
Now he is criticizing you for judging other people's writing, yet he has made comments doing exactly the same about yours!!! He clearly doesn't look at your follower numbers, or realize that by condemning your award (which was voted for by Hubbers), he is condemning everyone who voted for you as the winner.
Mark, perhaps you should take cleaner's advice. After all, he/she is a second year English student, and willing to give writing tips to anyone who asks.
Stop being such a fraidy cat and ask for help already. Sheesh.
;)
PS. I found at least 4 major typo's in his profile in a matter of seconds. Not a good sign for an English student or a potential teacher!!!
Misty, if you would get your head out of marks buttt... maybe you would understand that you are getting personal with me. I won't even give you the respect of looking at your bio, cause I wouldn't want to waste my time.I'm sure that mark can speak for himself
go try to get someone on your own hub, oh maybe nobody wants to. Who died and made you a grammer instructor , Go cook somebody's dinner if you know how.by the way how many times did you vote for him?You have no idea of what manners are.
LOL, Cleaner3, firstly, take the time to look at my profile and you will see how many followers I have, and for sure I am being no more 'personal' than you are being with Mark. I get the best part of 8000 views a day on my hubs (sometimes over 10,000), how many do you get??? I also earn from mine, (pretty well actually), do you?
By the way, you misspelled 'grammar' as 'grammer' even in this comment, lol again. You also failed to include a space between the word 'time' and the start of the new sentence 'I'm' and forgot the full stop after the word 'himself'. In the new paragraph you failed to use a capital letter for the word 'go', you put an extra space between the word 'instructor' and the word 'Go', as well as using a capital letter for that example of the word 'go' even though it followed a comma, and not a full stop. After the word 'how.' you didn't leave a space before the word 'by', nor did you capitalize the 'b' in the word 'by'. The next question mark after the word 'him' again lacked a space after it before the word 'You'.
You could only vote once for each Hubber in the competition, so no, I could not vote for Mark multiple times, and actually, I didn't vote for anyone anyway, in fact I didn't vote in any of the categories as I was busy on other projects when the competition was taking place!
Your responses reek of childishness, and clearly you do have a lot of growing up to do (is that personal enough for you?)
What school is it you are being taught at again?? LOL
Any writing tips you need, or grammatical advice, just give me a shout!
BTW. Yes I can cook, but hey, I am an intelligent and mature woman who can multitask, although I am really not sure what my cooking skills have to do with writing, perhaps you can enlighten me on this!
Hi Mark, I have nothing to say that I didn't say weeks ago.
Except to cleaner3: (Sorry, c3, you'll have to concentrate here, it's a kind of grown-up analogy. But I'll go slowly for you.)
I once wanted to be a racing car driver. I figured, "I can drive, all I need to do is drive faster, and I'm there". If you know anything about car racing, c3, you'll know how naive that belief is.
My brother wanted to be a maths professor. He figured "I can add up, all I have to do is add up bigger numbers, and I'm laughing." He was wrong (If I'd said 'incorrect' that would have drawn a wry smile from other writers who may read this, but I did promise to keep it simple for you.)
Many people want to be writers. Thanks to the net, anyone who does, (unlike racing drivers and maths professors), can magically become one just by saying so.
Some people can go on (in their own minds) to be teachers, philosophers even. Just say it, and it is so.
Hub Pages is full of the profiles of such pretenders.
And what I've seen of your 'writing' so far leads me to the inescapable conclusion that this legion of "would be if I could be's" has another member.
If you really do want to achieve your dream, c3, you have a long way to go. Less time spent mouthing off in areas you don't understand, more effort and attention to your own work would be my advice.
I know you won't take it, of course, but it is meant with sincerity.
I'm still trying to fathom how someone can actually be capable of fostering so much unbridled hatred towards a perfect stranger. Frankly, I'm concerned for this Cleaner-fellow's mental health and well being. It's obviously something deeply rooted in his subconscious, a more than likely result of his having being dropped on his head as a child.
Thankfully, there have been many pharmaceutical advances in the treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder as well as the host of other various and assorted neuroses that obviously plague him. Although my final diagnosis remains unconfirmed at present, clearly, this man is in dire need of a reputable, licensed psychiatric professional or, at the very least, a decent career counselor.
Oooo, I got put down by marks minions. wow , I feel honored . So Misty you got so many followers, blah blah blah.who cares go back to the bar and have another drink.
why don't the rest of you clowns mind your own business. Oh i forgot you don't have a life .
All you drones should get together,.,.,. t5here please give me some more grammer lessons, please .
Hang on a second...I thought you were into being holy. I thought you were one of "the anointed ones," you know, touched by angels and all that. Don't get me wrong, you are definitely touched, but, uh...it ain't angels.
Well when it comes to 'having a life' C3, clearly we aren't the ones with that problem. By the way, I can't go back to the bar and have another drink, too busy cooking LOL.
I notice you are still struggling with your punctuation, spelling and capitalization. I think you might want to sort that out before offering your 'dubious' writing tips services to others on your profile page. Also you might want to change the spelling of 'rhyme' on your profile, it is not spelled 'ryhme' as you have spelled it twice. Also a good grammAr book will explain to you the difference between 'to' and 'too', as clearly this has not been explained to you before.
Anyway, clearly you are unable to intelligently address any of the valid criticisms anyone here has made about your attitude and your writing skills (or lack of), without falling back on childish insults. If I were in your shoes I would at least attempt to defend myself against the points people have made, (as opposed to responding with petty nasty remarks that say nothing and merely prove your immaturity and lack of any intelligent answers that might defend your case).
I am just glad you don't aspire to being a lawyer as opposed to a teacher, because you would be laughed out of court with your defense, and the prosecution would walk all over you.
Note to self: Don't start on Misty, especially cooking or grammar related stuff.
Note to Cleaner3: I'm not sure why you are bothering with this. It doesn't really achieve anything. I wanted this page to be controversial, and you are helping that along.
To be honest you can go on typing "clown" for ever more, and I don't think it will prove a lot.
LOL Mark, honestly, I am just finding this guy quite funny now. He really doesn't realize how childish he comes across as, and how awful his grammar and punctuation is for a so called '2nd year English Student'. At least he is helping you to earn money by his repeated visits though, and he has proved to be quite entertaining in a warped kind of way. I even managed to completely write a Hub for the March competition in between commenting here, cooking a meal and having a couple of beers. Now THAT is multitasking at its best ;)
Hi Mark, I was wondering when you would show your face. Why did you start on the poets is all I wanted to know?
I use the word clowns because your minions are clowns. Just because you have an award and misty makes all kinds of money from her hubs( she would be out eating dinner if she did) doesn't mean that you can put down poets. I never said I was a good one, you CLOWNS think you are so high and mighty, is that what you and your friends do is sit around and tell each other how great you all are.You bunch of CLOWNS.
Misty - multitasking at it's finest.
Cleaner3. I may drop the 3 in a minute as we're getting to know each other. You were wondering when I might show up? In between sleeping and getting ready for work is the answer - I have another ten minutes.
Finally you ask a question. Why did I start on the poets? I didn't. I aimed my rant at people who churned out tiny pages of amateur writing which did not seem to have much point. As the earlier comments and some of the page explains - I misjudged some of my target, especially where the Haiku was concerned.
But, my page was entitled a rant, and a rant it was.
As for your jealousy re my minions, or perhaps peers would be a better choice of word, or even fellow writers / Hubbers. I put my time here into making a positive contribution where I can - be it through trying to write humorous material or joining in. We don't normally do a lot of the glad handing thing, but if someone comes along and starts having a go then what else would you expect?
People on HubPages are generally supportive of each other.
Hey misty, you write about hairy armpits, REALLY!!!
How to Find a missing cat!!!! REALLY!!
Wow you have such knowledge, WOW.
I don't know how the world keeps on moving without you.
Get your head out of marks butt and get a real life.
Okay, so still not answering any of the points made lol, possibly because you can't and don't have any answers.
What makes you think I don't go out eating dinner?? I just don't do it every night, and certainly on British time (which I am on), not many restaurants are open at 05.35am, which is the time it is now (Yes, I do work mostly at night).
'We' don't tell each other how 'great we are', we judge the proper way, by reading each others work and their comments. We can then form a proper and valid opinion as to the level of talent and intelligence we are dealing with, (not to mention vocabulary that exceeds the word 'clowns'). It is for this reason I doubt you would find any of us wanting to follow you, or your work. You are just too raw, rude, immature and lacking in any of the basic skills that warrant being followed.
OK Cleaner - that is well out of line. It was fun arguing with you but I'm not prepared to accept that sort of rubbish on my pages.
Misty - if you want this garbage deleted let me know.
Cleaner. You need to be a lot lot better if you want to cut it on a writing site. Playground insults belong in the playground.
edit: I'm off to work now. Yes, I still have a day job. Will check later.
Don't worry Mark, let it stand, it will bring those hubs yet more traffic, and more money for me too LOL.
@ Cleaner, you should see the views those hubs get, and views convert to money, but hey, they are just the tip of the iceberg, why not look at some of my other topics which might be beyond your level of understanding, but you could try them anyway? Sadly you clearly only looked at the titles of the hubs you cited, and perhaps a little more effort on your part might have educated you more, (not just on this, but in your past too).
Mark, have a nice day and don't work to hard. be safe. Misty, Thanks for the ride Lady.
@ Cleaner. You mean 'too hard' not 'to hard' and 'Be safe' not 'be safe', and the the word 'Thanks' should have had a small 't' as it followed a comma, not a full stop.
Mark, I definitely prefer minions to clowns or peers. ;)
So do I Motown. I'm going to tell my wife "I've got minions". And she'll tell me I can get a cream for it.
Everyone should have minions to rise to his defense against mostly senseless banter from someone clearly trying to draw attention to himself.
But, hell, if it draws more traffic to your pages at the same time, I say it's a good thing.
I want minions, and I'm proud to be one of yours.
I'm sitting here this morning, perusing the wellspring of thought provoking wisdom provided by The Clean One and chastising myself for even attempting to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. I mean, this guy fell out of the clueless tree and hit every branch on the way down.
That being said, Mark- at least you got a good run for your money on this hub. Consider me one of the newly initiated...
Your loyal minion-in-training,
Steele
Steele, and Motown - I've never had minions before and it is pretty damn good. Like Followers+.
To all who commented - you may stand down now until the next call to arms. I was thinking of writing something about people who keep cats.
LOL Mark, I have spent all night trying to get my head out of your butt, but it is still stuck fast. Please can you help?
It's not often I am stuck for a reply...
But it does paint a very lovely and charming picture, Mark, you must admit.
It does indeed Twilight. If I were more of a poet I'd be able to wax lyrical about it... nice to see you by the way.
Great hub and some hilarious responses to it, Mark! I don't detest haiku attempts because I don't read them. That goes for 99% of the other works posted here by the poet wannabies. You know, most of those who dislike this hub. LOL!
Give me a good limerick any day of the week. I enjoy a bit of Poe and other truly well thought out poems which actually tell a complete story. But that's about it!
I thought we on HP were okay with not liking such drivel, aren't we? But in case I'm mistaken, I give my blessing to those here who do not care for my own particular method of driveling!
SSSSS
well, you know that the fact that I am single and have a cat means I am a crazy cat lady.
Thanks Randy. I like some poetry stuff too. By the way... check your inbox.
Flora. I know that but am too much of a gentleman to mention it. Anyway, there's nothing wrong with cats... much.
Who knew, Mark?
Exactly.
Although. I am not entirely sure what you are referring to.
LOL Mark, I am honoured to have left you 'lost for words'.
Dangit! My computer is down with a cold so I'm waiting for my son to arrive and give it an E-enema! I'm afraid to try and acess my email through this one cause it belongs to my wife. You know how women are!! :)
The funny thing about satire is its rarely constructive and only makes sense to a biased group. That's what makes them funny. Keep on watching the world burn Mark. Laughter saves lives.
Misty, contrary to the cliche, "a picture paints a thousand words", I've always believed that words have the power to paint pictures far beyond what oil on canvas can convey.
But it's not often a set of words paints a picture as indelible as "I have spent all night trying to get my head out of your butt, but it is still stuck fast."
I could use a good 'cleaner' to remove the image from my mind... but unfortunately, the only one I'm aware of has got his/her head firmly stuck up his/her own ass.
(I know I could probably determine the gender question if I visited cleaner3's profile. But whyTF would I bother to do that?)
ROFLMAO writeronline, so sorry I left you with such a mentally indelible image. Perhaps a good 'cleaner' is just what Mark needs, after all, our 'cleaner' may make a bad friend, but he makes a great 'enema'.
Wait a minute, Misty! I'm inspired!
Went to get an enema,
but wound up at the cinema.
And tho I saw a real good show,
I feel I may still have to go.
Snakespear
sssss
LOL Randy, you see, you have poetry in your soul after all ;)
It's called a High cool! :p
SSSSS
"...you have poetry in your soul after all"
Given the theme of Randy's poem, Misty, and 3cleaner's difficulty with written expression, I'm just glad he/she didn't attempt that response.
Big difference between 'your soul' and 'you r soul'....
LOL again writeronline, very clever, especially the 'you r soul'. Sharp as a box of pins :)
Snakespear? Friends and enemas?
My next page I'm just going to draw a big arrow pointing to the comment section and issue some invites.
Thanks guys, excellent!
ROFL...friends and enemas...
Yup, Mark.
Keep your friends close and your enemas where Misty's head has been all night.
Lol and sheesh. With friends like this who needs enemas?
LOL to All :)
Cardisa Level 8 Commenter 4 months ago
Mark I must tell you that there are many HAIKU poets on HP, and Haiku ranges anywhere from 3 to 9 lines and in that case, it's not fair of you to judge. Myself on the other hand can't stand never-ending poetry that's just a long litany of nonsensical words without meaning. For me the ideal length of a poem is between 12 and 32 lines. Longer than that it gets really boring.
Short poems should be packed with emotions and strong powerful meaning that makes the reader say "YES". Other thank that, it really makes no sense at all.